Tuesday, July 05, 2005
Crum Heights
Last shabbos, I spent the weekend in Washington Heights. And for pretty much the first time, I crossed from the YU side to the Breuers side. I stayed in an apartment on the "other" side of the Heights and had my two meals there. I arrived in the apartment I was staying in, to be introduced to a girl watching tv in the bedroom of the friend I was staying with. I davened Friday night at Mt. Sinai, the main synagogue on the "other" side. It was my first and last time there. There are about a hundred guys davening there, mostly single. And a hundred girls. Who ever heard of so many single girls going to davening? After davening, everyone stood around socializing. I guess that answers my previous question. Something is just wrong when shul just becomes a place to meet people. And the way the mechitzah is built, you don't really have to wait until after davening to start making your selection. Now, I'm generally ok with public co-ed locales, and certainly it is better to meet in a house of Gd than a house of idleness, but turning the house of Gd into the house of idleness- not so cool.
Then comes the meals. I'm used to eating in somebody's house. Or in a cafeteria. But Friday night we went to a friends apartment, a whole bunch of Chicago guys, and what's there? Two girls. Why it's normal for them to eat over with a bunch of guys in a single's apartment is beyond me. But of course, that paled with lunch, when 15 guys and 15 girls were all eating in a single girl's apartment. I think meeting over a shabbos meal is great. But only if it's chaperoned. And under no circumstance do singles belong in apartments belonging to the opposite sex. There are plenty of public and supervised settings to meet. There is no excuse for this one.
Shabbos afternoon, a group of guys and girls went to a nearby park to hang out. This was at least appropriate. Everyone was dressed, it was a limited group of relgious kids with something in common, and even the people not part of our group weren't inappropriately dressed. So this is a casual environment where people can get to know each other. You don't have to go straight to moving into somebody's apartment.
Then comes the meals. I'm used to eating in somebody's house. Or in a cafeteria. But Friday night we went to a friends apartment, a whole bunch of Chicago guys, and what's there? Two girls. Why it's normal for them to eat over with a bunch of guys in a single's apartment is beyond me. But of course, that paled with lunch, when 15 guys and 15 girls were all eating in a single girl's apartment. I think meeting over a shabbos meal is great. But only if it's chaperoned. And under no circumstance do singles belong in apartments belonging to the opposite sex. There are plenty of public and supervised settings to meet. There is no excuse for this one.
Shabbos afternoon, a group of guys and girls went to a nearby park to hang out. This was at least appropriate. Everyone was dressed, it was a limited group of relgious kids with something in common, and even the people not part of our group weren't inappropriately dressed. So this is a casual environment where people can get to know each other. You don't have to go straight to moving into somebody's apartment.
# posted by Josh : Tuesday, July 05, 2005
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For the record, you should see what we were doing in the park before you arrived... :)
Anyway, strongly disagree with various points. Blah blah blah. Insert argument here. Too tired and I don't think either of us care.
Mark
Anyway, strongly disagree with various points. Blah blah blah. Insert argument here. Too tired and I don't think either of us care.
Mark
# posted by 
: July 19, 2005 11:03 PM
: July 19, 2005 11:03 PM
1- If you were right about your snap judgements about Mt. Sinai, then there'd be a whole lot less davneing and a whole lot more talking, and it wouldn't be so hard to get a seat within fifteen minutes of davening starting
2- People should meet, period the end. Mt. Sinai as an institution is thrilled that their shul is up and thriving, and various Heights couples are certainly thrilled, as well.
3- I have been to many a coed meal, almost all of which were conducted the any way any coed adult meal would be conducted- even without chaperones. What are you implying, that a nineteen year old married girl and her twenty year old husband can tell my twenty four plus year old friends how to behave? That is so offensive it defies proper rebuttal.
4- It is not so practical to set up the kind of boundries you are describing and limit one's social sphere so drastically. Everyone has a place where he or she feels the need to draw a line and it's a personal decision. When you live in a dorm, the thought of having a member of the opp sex cross into your bedroom is bizaare and wrong. When you're a grown up living in an apartment, having a guy you're dating/friends with/co-ed meal in you're living room does not quite have that same significance.
5- Granted, the mechitzah is not the highest it could be but I don't think it speaks well of you to slander a House of G-d, as you put it.
6- Even if people come to shul to meet people, there is nothing wrong with meeting people and there is nothing wrong wirh more people coming to shul. Again, if it were just that people would show up at eleven am.
7- If MO is about melding different qualities of a world together, then I think for the most part the Heights is a healthy place to do just that- and what I love best about it is not having arbitrary standards that someone created thrown in other people's faces.
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2- People should meet, period the end. Mt. Sinai as an institution is thrilled that their shul is up and thriving, and various Heights couples are certainly thrilled, as well.
3- I have been to many a coed meal, almost all of which were conducted the any way any coed adult meal would be conducted- even without chaperones. What are you implying, that a nineteen year old married girl and her twenty year old husband can tell my twenty four plus year old friends how to behave? That is so offensive it defies proper rebuttal.
4- It is not so practical to set up the kind of boundries you are describing and limit one's social sphere so drastically. Everyone has a place where he or she feels the need to draw a line and it's a personal decision. When you live in a dorm, the thought of having a member of the opp sex cross into your bedroom is bizaare and wrong. When you're a grown up living in an apartment, having a guy you're dating/friends with/co-ed meal in you're living room does not quite have that same significance.
5- Granted, the mechitzah is not the highest it could be but I don't think it speaks well of you to slander a House of G-d, as you put it.
6- Even if people come to shul to meet people, there is nothing wrong with meeting people and there is nothing wrong wirh more people coming to shul. Again, if it were just that people would show up at eleven am.
7- If MO is about melding different qualities of a world together, then I think for the most part the Heights is a healthy place to do just that- and what I love best about it is not having arbitrary standards that someone created thrown in other people's faces.
# posted by : August 10, 2005 3:47 PM
: August 10, 2005 3:47 PM<< Home
