Friday, August 19, 2005
Anonymity and Animals
On Semgirl's blog, a discussion is underway into the tension that tears each person between doing right and wrong. Some of the comments there have provided fabulous insight into human nature.
The power of blogs is that we can get a lot off our chests in a very open environment. Many use their anonymity to say the things that their community forces them to keep bottled up. I happen to have given up my anonymity, and, yes, with it, some of the opportunities for uncensored discussion. I can be fairly honest and open, but at the end of the day, I am still Josh, not some random electronic creation. And besides, my mom reads this blog. But either way, the ability to share our different experiences and our different struggles makes us all stronger.
What I didn't realize were the differences between girls and guys in the struggle to be religious. Now don't think I'm some clown who never realized that guys and girls are different. Just that I've never viewed the religious struggle from this dichotomy. I've always viewed this daily battle very simplistically, from my own perspective. Life is a ladder, at the bottom is the animalistic life, that which we share with all other creations. At the top of the ladder is Gd, and all our Higher abilities. The daily struggle is between the base instincts which pull us down, and our attempts to come closer to Gd. It is either up or down.
But based on a comment by theGirl, I realize that girls are much different in the religious realm as well. Their struggle isn't so clear cut. For them, life is a choice of different ladders. Some lead to Gd, some don't. It isn't simply a choice between base instinct and higher intellect. They are trying to feed their soul and their emotions, sometimes choosing the right path, othertimes the wrong ones. Their wants aren't in conflict with religion by nature, it's just a question of what direction they choose. What makes them tick isn't something I can necessarily understand, but they are different, I'm sure ;)
And that brings us back to the anonymity. For me, if I were anonymous online, I fear that it would be an outlet for my animal side to roam, to act out without fear of being caught. So I keep him bottled up here too. But girls can let it out online without risking letting the animal loose.
It's not like I never knew that girls are different. But so often we only look at people through our own eyes. But if you really want to learn from somebody, you need to be able to see their choices through their own perspective. So this whole revelation really changes how I see girls facing dilemmas vs. guys. So much to learn...
The power of blogs is that we can get a lot off our chests in a very open environment. Many use their anonymity to say the things that their community forces them to keep bottled up. I happen to have given up my anonymity, and, yes, with it, some of the opportunities for uncensored discussion. I can be fairly honest and open, but at the end of the day, I am still Josh, not some random electronic creation. And besides, my mom reads this blog. But either way, the ability to share our different experiences and our different struggles makes us all stronger.
What I didn't realize were the differences between girls and guys in the struggle to be religious. Now don't think I'm some clown who never realized that guys and girls are different. Just that I've never viewed the religious struggle from this dichotomy. I've always viewed this daily battle very simplistically, from my own perspective. Life is a ladder, at the bottom is the animalistic life, that which we share with all other creations. At the top of the ladder is Gd, and all our Higher abilities. The daily struggle is between the base instincts which pull us down, and our attempts to come closer to Gd. It is either up or down.
But based on a comment by theGirl, I realize that girls are much different in the religious realm as well. Their struggle isn't so clear cut. For them, life is a choice of different ladders. Some lead to Gd, some don't. It isn't simply a choice between base instinct and higher intellect. They are trying to feed their soul and their emotions, sometimes choosing the right path, othertimes the wrong ones. Their wants aren't in conflict with religion by nature, it's just a question of what direction they choose. What makes them tick isn't something I can necessarily understand, but they are different, I'm sure ;)
And that brings us back to the anonymity. For me, if I were anonymous online, I fear that it would be an outlet for my animal side to roam, to act out without fear of being caught. So I keep him bottled up here too. But girls can let it out online without risking letting the animal loose.
It's not like I never knew that girls are different. But so often we only look at people through our own eyes. But if you really want to learn from somebody, you need to be able to see their choices through their own perspective. So this whole revelation really changes how I see girls facing dilemmas vs. guys. So much to learn...
# posted by Josh : Friday, August 19, 2005
Comments:
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That was really a phenomanally well written post. Very, very inciteful and informative, while being humorous at the same time.
I really enjoyed reading it.
The only question I have, and I hope you don't find this offensive.
I was under the impression that you were married a few years. How is it possible for a married man to be so clueless about women?
I really enjoyed reading it.
The only question I have, and I hope you don't find this offensive.
I was under the impression that you were married a few years. How is it possible for a married man to be so clueless about women?
Um, SG, I'm still single (hint, hint). But I'm guessing it's still plenty possible for a married man to remain clueless.
And don't worry, I'm never offended by any question geared to learning somebody else's point of view. Hope all my questions are taken the same.
And don't worry, I'm never offended by any question geared to learning somebody else's point of view. Hope all my questions are taken the same.
As a guy, I must admit that this post left me befuddled. While not pondering this often, I can understand the ladder analogy. But I still don't understand your description of the way girls live despite having sisters and serious relationships in the recent past-maybe that's why I'm still single? ;)
_____
For them, life is a choice of different ladders. Some lead to Gd, some don't. It isn't simply a choice between base instinct and higher intellect. They are trying to feed their soul and their emotions, sometimes choosing the right path, othertimes the wrong ones. Their wants aren't in conflict with religion by nature, it's just a question of what direction they choose.
__________
Aren't we all like that? Don't we all (guys and girls) have the choice to take paths (professionally, personally, religiously etc) that lead closer or further from G-d?
Aren't we all trying to live a life that fulfills our souls, our emotions, our bodies, minds?
And, since the Torah does set forth guidelines about how we should feel, what we can do and put into our bodies, and what we should use our minds for, doesn't that leave to an inevitable struggle?
How are guys and girls different here? I still don't understand.
_____
For them, life is a choice of different ladders. Some lead to Gd, some don't. It isn't simply a choice between base instinct and higher intellect. They are trying to feed their soul and their emotions, sometimes choosing the right path, othertimes the wrong ones. Their wants aren't in conflict with religion by nature, it's just a question of what direction they choose.
__________
Aren't we all like that? Don't we all (guys and girls) have the choice to take paths (professionally, personally, religiously etc) that lead closer or further from G-d?
Aren't we all trying to live a life that fulfills our souls, our emotions, our bodies, minds?
And, since the Torah does set forth guidelines about how we should feel, what we can do and put into our bodies, and what we should use our minds for, doesn't that leave to an inevitable struggle?
How are guys and girls different here? I still don't understand.
Elster,
That's basically what I was getting at. While women are more emotional, and I understand that, I don't think that men are living without attempting to satisfy their emotional needs, too. The difference, to me at least, is that women need more "emotional sustenance than the other. But they both have emotional needs and they can both can feel that it seems to 'interfere' with their shmiras hamitzvos.
That's basically what I was getting at. While women are more emotional, and I understand that, I don't think that men are living without attempting to satisfy their emotional needs, too. The difference, to me at least, is that women need more "emotional sustenance than the other. But they both have emotional needs and they can both can feel that it seems to 'interfere' with their shmiras hamitzvos.
It's funny. After I wrote the post, I too thought it was unclear. I wrote back and forth between two seemingly unconnected topics without really tying them together. But Semgirl's comment left me with a false sense of accomplishment.
The truth is my post really was based on a comment in another post. And after seeing Semgirl and Elisheva partially debunk that claim, by saying that girl's too can be driven by base desires, I'm not sure if it is fully true. And Elster and Michael, in pointing out here that guys also rely on emotional connections, cause me to further question my assumptions.
The bottom line is that I have always seen my religious choices in terms of animalstic desires bringing me down and halachic guidance bringing me up. I will either wake up for davening or go back to sleep. I will either say Lashon Hora or keep my mouth shut. There is no room for misguided decisions, just right or wrong. But what theGirl's comment lead me to realize is that not every sin is from giving into our physical desires. Somebody who does Avodah Zorah does so not out of animalistic instinct (or so I suppose), but out of a misguided understanding of the spiritual. I would never make such a mistake. I have no Yetzer Hora for such a thing. But I see that other's do. According to theGirl's comment, a relationship with a boy is like this Avodah Zorah. You don't do it because your hormones tell you. You do it because your emotions mislead you. You are getting something good from it, just through a means that may be Assur.
Again, Semgirl and Elisheva's responses cause me to question whether this phenomen is part of a fundamental difference between guys and girls. But either way, it is a breakthrough in that it expands my understanding of why other people make the choices they do. And that is what the blogosphere is all about. That, and having alert readers point out your contradictions. Thanks guys.
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The truth is my post really was based on a comment in another post. And after seeing Semgirl and Elisheva partially debunk that claim, by saying that girl's too can be driven by base desires, I'm not sure if it is fully true. And Elster and Michael, in pointing out here that guys also rely on emotional connections, cause me to further question my assumptions.
The bottom line is that I have always seen my religious choices in terms of animalstic desires bringing me down and halachic guidance bringing me up. I will either wake up for davening or go back to sleep. I will either say Lashon Hora or keep my mouth shut. There is no room for misguided decisions, just right or wrong. But what theGirl's comment lead me to realize is that not every sin is from giving into our physical desires. Somebody who does Avodah Zorah does so not out of animalistic instinct (or so I suppose), but out of a misguided understanding of the spiritual. I would never make such a mistake. I have no Yetzer Hora for such a thing. But I see that other's do. According to theGirl's comment, a relationship with a boy is like this Avodah Zorah. You don't do it because your hormones tell you. You do it because your emotions mislead you. You are getting something good from it, just through a means that may be Assur.
Again, Semgirl and Elisheva's responses cause me to question whether this phenomen is part of a fundamental difference between guys and girls. But either way, it is a breakthrough in that it expands my understanding of why other people make the choices they do. And that is what the blogosphere is all about. That, and having alert readers point out your contradictions. Thanks guys.
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