Wednesday, March 15, 2006
Freilechen...
I am not a fan of drinking.
Enough said.
Enough said.
Comments:
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See the Chochmas Mano'ach at the end of Maseches Megilla for a wonderful explanation. And no, you should not get drunk - the rema is pretty clear about that.
hey- one more reason to come to us next purim- non-drinkers purim seudah!! no, i am not joking... how was ny? (welcome back!)
For many of us born into Chasidishe/Russishe mishpochos, drinking is not just for Shabbos, Yomtov, Purim, etc. Any simcho, any occasion, any reason is always good enough. I'm an apikores and I still drink everyday, though I'm never gantz shikur.
My father o'h had a good friend who was a devout Litvak entirely opposed to drinking. My father suggested to him the old "nichnas yayin yatza sod",and inquired "vus iz darten inneveynig ihr kehnt nit tzuvayysen?" (What is there inside that you can't show anyone?)
You have a heartzige blog.
Kol Tuv
My father o'h had a good friend who was a devout Litvak entirely opposed to drinking. My father suggested to him the old "nichnas yayin yatza sod",and inquired "vus iz darten inneveynig ihr kehnt nit tzuvayysen?" (What is there inside that you can't show anyone?)
You have a heartzige blog.
Kol Tuv
What's all this freaking out about drinking a little (ok, maybe alot) on Purim?
Being frum structures every minute of every day of our lives, very often we bump into things that we aren't allowed to do (well, I do anyway). Is it such a bad thing that one day a year we step back and loosen up a little? It's not vulgarity when it's done in the spirit of Torah.
OK, i have more in me on this subject, but this isn't my blog, so I'll stop here.
Loosen up people!!!
-Rebel w/o a Clue
Being frum structures every minute of every day of our lives, very often we bump into things that we aren't allowed to do (well, I do anyway). Is it such a bad thing that one day a year we step back and loosen up a little? It's not vulgarity when it's done in the spirit of Torah.
OK, i have more in me on this subject, but this isn't my blog, so I'll stop here.
Loosen up people!!!
-Rebel w/o a Clue
drinking is overrated. the same flavanoids that are found in red wine (and are the healthy thing everyone argues with) are also found in grape juice. a martini here and there can be a fun thing with friends, but generally drinking is a waste of money. i've been hanging out with this alcoholic for about a year now - its amazing how much fun the kid has without drinking.. i admire it.
All - I just want to start off by saying that I intentionally left my post vague, so that I could first get your impressions of the issue, without actually saying what my objection was.
In fact, I do not drink on Purim. I didn't even have grape juice. Nor did I even have a negative experience with drunkards this year. Of course, when you work on Purim, you don't have to deal with it. What was special this year was that I was able to spend the night in Yeshiva, but was back in the community for the day. My Seudah was me, my mom, and pizza.
Gavi- I am a big Rema person. I did take a nap, although I'll admit I didn't have Kavana, and we do pasken Mitzvos Tzrichos Kavana.
BB - That is a funny Shpiel. Hmmm, that would be great, but if I could get you drunk...
T - I think you missed the point completely. The fact that people who pasken like the Rema do go overboard with drinking demonstrates that their motivation is not halachic but alcoholic. While you are correct in saying that Chazal saw the measured limits permissable, please look around you and ask if those limits aren't being crossed. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't drink yourself, but consider what impact your encouragement of open drinking on Purim does to those that have no self-control. That doesn't mean that the drink shouldn't be served at the Seudah, but I think it is the responsibility of anyone who allows it to ensure it isn't overused. As far as drinking being goyish, I think that is a little extreme, although I do agree that turning to drunkeness to accomplish anything other than a true spiritual high is anti-Torah. We don't escape to a bottle.
SLA - Drinking is a cultural thing, but I don't think that is a reason for or against. Within Judaism, our decisions should be growth oriented. For a Chassidiche family this may mean alcohol on a Friday night, but I would still think heading to the bar for a few stiff drinks after work would be counter productive.
JB - That could go either way...
Anon (AKA RW/OAC) - In my mind, Judaism espouses consistency. That means there is no day off from the ideal. Different holidays are different approaches to perfection, but none excuses us from it. To assume a respite is deserved is to assume that the path is impossible or not desirable. For example, people who work only to be able to retire imply a general rejection of working as an ideal. Perhaps it is my tenure under Yeshiva University's Torah U'Madda philosophy that taught me this rule, but if you believe something to be productive, you never turn your back on it - even for a minute, at least intentionally.
Shosh - And that's why you should always carry a change of underwear...
Yakki - That is the secret. Identifying what is lacking that legitmimizes drunkeness as an alternative.
In fact, I do not drink on Purim. I didn't even have grape juice. Nor did I even have a negative experience with drunkards this year. Of course, when you work on Purim, you don't have to deal with it. What was special this year was that I was able to spend the night in Yeshiva, but was back in the community for the day. My Seudah was me, my mom, and pizza.
Gavi- I am a big Rema person. I did take a nap, although I'll admit I didn't have Kavana, and we do pasken Mitzvos Tzrichos Kavana.
BB - That is a funny Shpiel. Hmmm, that would be great, but if I could get you drunk...
T - I think you missed the point completely. The fact that people who pasken like the Rema do go overboard with drinking demonstrates that their motivation is not halachic but alcoholic. While you are correct in saying that Chazal saw the measured limits permissable, please look around you and ask if those limits aren't being crossed. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't drink yourself, but consider what impact your encouragement of open drinking on Purim does to those that have no self-control. That doesn't mean that the drink shouldn't be served at the Seudah, but I think it is the responsibility of anyone who allows it to ensure it isn't overused. As far as drinking being goyish, I think that is a little extreme, although I do agree that turning to drunkeness to accomplish anything other than a true spiritual high is anti-Torah. We don't escape to a bottle.
SLA - Drinking is a cultural thing, but I don't think that is a reason for or against. Within Judaism, our decisions should be growth oriented. For a Chassidiche family this may mean alcohol on a Friday night, but I would still think heading to the bar for a few stiff drinks after work would be counter productive.
JB - That could go either way...
Anon (AKA RW/OAC) - In my mind, Judaism espouses consistency. That means there is no day off from the ideal. Different holidays are different approaches to perfection, but none excuses us from it. To assume a respite is deserved is to assume that the path is impossible or not desirable. For example, people who work only to be able to retire imply a general rejection of working as an ideal. Perhaps it is my tenure under Yeshiva University's Torah U'Madda philosophy that taught me this rule, but if you believe something to be productive, you never turn your back on it - even for a minute, at least intentionally.
Shosh - And that's why you should always carry a change of underwear...
Yakki - That is the secret. Identifying what is lacking that legitmimizes drunkeness as an alternative.
DG - There is no lacking in using a glass of wine (or more) to bring out your merriness. As long as your conscious of your goal in life the whole time. Drunkeness can be a distraction from our purpose in life, or something that makes it clearer. As long as we use it in the right way, and in a safe way, there is nothing wrong with that. Although, I would argue that if you can accomplish spiritual clarity without its aid, that is the highest level.
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