Why Josh Can't Be Left Alone

i liked the last one! it was a geshmake argument!
 

josh -this is you on a "not-so-thought-out" post? It's one of my favorites! Especially the chocolate one -I agree with Chanie.

quick comments: Whenever I get back from Israel, it always hurts me to change my watch. I pretend that if I don't change it, my mind will still be set on eretz yisrael time. But really it just confused me.

kids- I think jews are "famous" throughout recent history for having many kids because if someone is physically and emotionally able to, their love for their children and unselfishness leads to more kids per fam. having kids is the closest anyone comes to mimicking G-dly creation -not the unfortunate result of some fun, as it is often perceived in today's society. in olden days, conditions weren't as feasible for many children -illness, poverty, lack of sterile birthing conditions or medicine didn't lend themselves to many kids. although back in egypt, I heard they had 6 at once. now that is a nes galuy!

chocolate- it's so yummy cause Hashem is so good to us! and life is like a box of chocolates, cause you can read on the label which one you're gonna get, but you're often wrong anyway!!

g'night:)
 

Josh - I agree with you about the kids. It seems to me that some or many people just go along with the trend, without putting a lot of thought into whether they will be able to support these children physically and emotionally.
 

Actually there is an inyan based on a pasuk in navi to continue having children even after the peru urvu is fulfilled. Of course each person should consult their rav for what is best for them and their families.
 

for the record, i think the answer to #2 and #3 is essentially the same...
 

Along with Eshet, I have heard that having many children is to make up for those lost in the Holocaust. I don't agree with the mentality, and I think it's detrimental to a lot of families who feel the pressure to have more children than they really can handle. I obviously don't know from experience, but I don't anticipate being able to handle such a large number of children with the care and attention I think each child deserves. While I don't have a fixed number in my head, I don't see myself having a huge family.

As for chocolate, if only it were also calorie-free! But I don't really care sometimes, there are times when you just need it, and it can make the world better in one bite. Can't say why, but I'm glad it's there.
 

Ch - It's funny because I'm not a huge chocolate fan myself. But my friend's friend...

O - I have so many posts in draft form that just haven't been fully fleshed out. These were some of the ones I felt I could mention without coming up with elaborate creative writing. But hopefully it'll all come out eventually, and then you'll see what I think on a good day! My Metrocard situation is that same mentality as the time situation (which I think a lot of people go through). The only problem with my situation is that I would understand if I was just switching back to the local custom. But I'm in Chicago, carrying a NY transit card! So it doesn't really say anything flattering about where I'm "waiting" to go next. As far as kids, that is a nice idea. There are some really growth oriented reasons why a Jews role is so compatable with a large family, if they choose. Is there pressure in the frum world to have multiple kids? I guess (the lack of) birth control probably factors in to equation to. Hopefully, people get to do what they feel is right for them. As far as chocolate, I suppose every joy in this world is a birthday present directly from Gd. And it's funny, because just yesterday I took a chocolate from the most clearly labelled box ever, and still managed to get shafted.

EC - I've heard the holocaust thing too. I actually think it's a really touching idea. But hopefully that would just be for those who want it, not as a Daas Torah. Obviously, large families can be great, but I don't think they are for everyone.

MH - Most people are short term. And making babies is a lot more fun than raising them.

Anon - I wasn't aware- thanks for sharing. If you find the posuk, feel free to post it.

BB - Don't think the incredible depth of your simple answer was lost on me.

Sh - Like anything, thinking before you act can make a world of difference in deciding how many children to have. Hopefully, we take into account all of the relevant issues before we go ahead and start populating the planet. But I guess chocolate doesn't take such a committment!
 

Josh - one of my good friends (who is definitely not a short term thinker) told me when I asked if her labor was difficult - labor is finite...she's more worried about the next 20 years. smart girl.
 

Josh, the Mitzvah of Sheves applies even beyond the pru urivuh requirement and is also applicable to women. It's not an obligatory mitzvah, but one that holds some weight.

That said, way too many people have too many kids. And I say that as a camp counsler for 4 years.
 

I can't find the pasuk (it's in Tanach), but the gemara talks about it in relation to a chatzi eved chatzi ben chorin around Daf 40 in Gittin. Can't recall the exact daf.
 

i love chocolate, btw.....if only it werent so fattening...i could live off it
but i think if u cant handle a lot of kids, then dont have a lot, its not fair to them
 

Josh, you just don't know how to keep yourself out of trouble, do you? If topic #2 doesn't generate some a huge amount of passion I will be very surprised, although very happy.

I have to agree with Nephtuli. There is also a Gemara that says something about Mashiah not being able to come until all of the Neshamos that were created at Har Sinai are brought into the world, so the more children we have, the better, or something along those lines. I believe it's in Maseches Niddah, but I'll have to double check on that. Remind me.

I also agree that many people have way too many kids. But I say this not only as someone who has worked at a camp for many years, and who teaches, and who has been an NCSY advisor for years and years, but also as someone who himself wants an in-house Minyan, plus alternates (I'm thinking 13 boys should do it), plus an equal number of girls for parity (that's 26 if you're keeping track).
 

MH - I'm not surprised that you're surrounded by smart friends. There's nothing wrong with having a lot of children (they're quite a Beracha), if you are ready for everything that comes with them.

Neph - I believe that there is Halachic basis to having a lot of kids. I'm just curious how much of our current practice is more socio/cultural at this point rather than halachic. If our great-great-grandparents in Poland had 10 kids, I wouldn't be surprised if their non-Jewish neighbors also had large families. That was what was called for in their environment. But I wonder if we've romanticized history and adopted large families as a norm not out of Halachic concerns, but for other ideas. Not that there is something wrong with large families, but I don't know if reproduction should be our yardstick for contribution to this world.

A - That is a beautiful thought, especially in its simplicity. We have so many lofty goals in life, many that we will never attain. It's nice to be able to find a box of fancy chocolates so near at hand and be able to indulge in a wonderful luxury.

Ch - I think chocolate is fruit. That means it must be healthy. Although, I think you'd have malnutrition if it was all you ate. BTW, if I intentionally misread your comment, it's pretty funny. If you have a lot of kids, don't eat a lot of chocolate, it's not fair to them. Teehee.

Sh - Your wise man probably didn't have to send his kids to day school. It's not that great a challenge to save for college. You get an 18 year head start. But when kindergarten is a $10,000 bill due in 5 years, that's quite a challenge for a young couple. Maybe I'll just have half a kid. Or wait until I'm 40.

EC - I saw the tag. And somebody else tagged me as well. I'll see what I can do- I'm not usually up for tagging...but for you...

Seth- Good luck to Ali. Do you have a replacement in mind for when she gets tired? Or are you going to stand by your adopted Sepharadi Minhag? Everyone has an idea of how many kids they want, and there are many great hashkafic reasons to have a lot, but they aren't like growing a beard- they come with a lot of baggage that affects more people's lives than just your own, so you have to put a lot of thought into what really will work for you.

T - White chocolate. How fancy! This is probably not a good time to tell everyone that I really don't like chocolate. I mean, I don't hate it, but usually when I end up eating one piece, I'm pretty much done, and it almost always spoils my dinner.

DG - Absolutely! We can plan, we can hope, but even when it comes to Mitzvos, Gd determines what the outcome will be. Peru is awesome! I have a request in at work for a transfer to Singapore (and NY). I'd love to end up in so many different places. There is so much to see and do in this world. Of course, I'd like Torah u'Mitzvos to be my road map. As far as children, I fully agree on this one that the husband has to defer to the wife to a large degree. He may want and be able to support a Minyan of kids, but if his wife doesn't feel strong enough to physically bear them, he's going to have to figure out a way to do it himself. And nice chocolate metaphor!
 

I came along too late to comment on the previous post... oh well. This one isnt so half baked though. Looking forward to see your meme answers, lol.
 

I'm not sure what you mean by my "adopted Sepharadi Minhag". But of course I would never replace her. Whatever HaShem blesses us with is what we get, I understand that. And we have put a great deal of thought into how many children we want, both of us. Ali seems less interested in 26 than she did the first time I/we came up with it. I originally just wanted a Minyan, but then I thought alternates would be a good thing. And of course Ali wants girls, and Peru URevu also requires at least one of each. That's how that all developed. Much, much thought. Many minutes. I can't tell you how many, but many. Several, at least. At least a couple of minutes. Definitely a couple of minutes of thought went into this decision. No doubt about that.

P.S. - Tailor and I started talking. Your blog has enabled us to bridge our perceived differences and open lines of communication.
 

FG - Never too late - everything gets emailed to me! As far as the meme, we'll see. I usually don't participate in chains (I have too much to write as it is!). But since I was tagged twice, I'll see what I can do.

Seth - You love Sephardi Minhag, and that would enable you to take a second wife. I'm just saying. You don't know how many minutes went into my comment. You don't really have to be Sepharadi. Tailor is a great guy. I'm glad that a) you're getting to know him, and b) my blog is serving as a forum of understanding and bonding.
 

Josh I agree with you 100%. But people have the mindset of "they did it in Poland, so it must be good."
 

josh-who says that having more kids means you cant take care of them as well? my neighbor has one kid and hes always left with a babysitter, yet somehow my ima manages all 10+ of us.

b'hatzlacha!
 

'the sabra' stole my comment! get out into the world and you'll see there are countless kids who are not taken care of, and they are often from small families. i dont personally believe that theres a limit to how much the heart can love. each person/child gets his share from an infinite source. once a child is loved and put above all other selfish needs of the parent, the child doesnt lack anything. the parents may not be able to afford the latest trends, or the kid may have to share his room.. but those are barely sacrifices when they have a loving parent who will take care of them no matter what and love them unconditionally. yeladim ze simcha, thats what the moroccans say and when thats your attitude, and each child is seen as a blessing, and not a burden, the child gets all the attention and care he needs.. even if it means he needs to pay for his own college tuition!
 

Neph - Something is flawed when we take our cues from Pollacks.

Sab - I'm not saying large families lead to neglect. I'm just suggesting that people shouldn't feel pressured into having large families, which require a lot more energy that not everybody has. Of course some people won't be able to handle even one or two kids. But at least they won't be ruining 10 lives if they cut back!

Mookie - Where there's a will...But how many people have that will? Gd bless those that do, those that recognize the joy of children above their own joy. But for the rest, hopefully they can think outside of the norm.
 

Yevamos 62b based on Koheles 11:6
 

G - Yasher Koach. Obviously, sources are a good place to start. The Gemara seems to be implying that multiple children increases the liklihood of children you will be proud of. Which is true, if you are a parent within enough energy. But if your child raising patience only wanes with additional progeny, your chances of churning out superious offspring would seem to decrease. Just my opinion.
 

Hello Josh-
I was trying to find the source of this passage:
'On Passover we are commanded to feel as though we went from slavery to freedom. Rabbi J. B. Soloveitchik teaches that “a mute life is identical with bondage and a speech life is a free life.” Tonight we will act as free people by asking questions.' And in my searching somehow your blog came up and I was reading it when I noticed to my surprise, that the entries were a year old! Time to post again Josh! It's Pesach 2007! Seriously, I think you have a very nice writing style and an interesting take on things. Do you by any chance have knowledge about the quote above? I want to use it during the telling of the Passover story at our Seder next week.

Thank you! -Portia Iversen (my website: www.strangeson.com)
 

Hello Josh-
I was trying to find the source of this passage:
'On Passover we are commanded to feel as though we went from slavery to freedom. Rabbi J. B. Soloveitchik teaches that “a mute life is identical with bondage and a speech life is a free life.” Tonight we will act as free people by asking questions.' And in my searching somehow your blog came up and I was reading it when I noticed to my surprise, that the entries were a year old! Time to post again Josh! It's Pesach 2007! Seriously, I think you have a very nice writing style and an interesting take on things. Do you by any chance have knowledge about the quote above? I want to use it during the telling of the Passover story at our Seder next week.

Thank you! -Portia Iversen (my website: www.strangeson.com)
 

Portia, check out
HREF="" REL="nofollow">this link that a google search gives. It has a full discussion of the topic, aparrently. And while I haven't blogged in a bit, I have had quite a bit of posts since last Passover...
 

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