Thursday, May 11, 2006
Home Sweet Home
I've written before about travelling to date. It's a complicated issue, but one that I've been on both sides of the fence. But as I look back on 18 months in Chicago, I'm actually considering taking the travelling for dating to a whole new level - moving.
I'd hardly be the first person to transplant myself for the sake of finding a bashert. But the question is, to what extreme does it make sense? Sure, if you're deciding between two job offers or colleges, you might factor in the social outlets afforded by each. But if you were firmly and securely established in one city, would you pack up and start again in another?
Now, I do have a request for a transfer in at my company to their New York offices. That wouldn't be such a leap, but that is hardly a guarantee. But would it be sane to quit my job, just to be able to move? Perhaps if I had another job lined up, but what about just quitting and moving? Marriage is important to me (and based on my last post, I am apparently thirsting for a deeper relationship), but is dating above making a living for me? Is it a matter of Bitachon, that all will fall into place, or on the other hand should I worry that not having a job will handicap my Shidduch resume?
Then of course, there is the other factor, what I'd be leaving behind. First, one girl here actually scolded me for focusing my dating efforts on New York, since that wasn't giving the local girls a fair chance (who are apparently having a hard time finding eligible guys). But I've only had two dates in Chicago since I moved here; I don't think I have to sacrifice myself to the theoretical altar of waiting Maidels. Second, obviously my family is here. Oh right, that was never a factor for me. I'm not interested in living in Chicago long-term. But I'm not interested in living in New York either. So it really is just playing the game, coming home with a trophy (yes, I realize that is an obscene metaphor. Just chuckle and move on...), and taking her far away. Where I don't know, but I would not consider New York the first city on my list for raising my children.
It's a lot of strain facing such difficult choices in life. Sometimes we know which path we have to march down to get to our goal, even if the path turns out of sight into a dark and foreboding barrier.
I'd hardly be the first person to transplant myself for the sake of finding a bashert. But the question is, to what extreme does it make sense? Sure, if you're deciding between two job offers or colleges, you might factor in the social outlets afforded by each. But if you were firmly and securely established in one city, would you pack up and start again in another?
Now, I do have a request for a transfer in at my company to their New York offices. That wouldn't be such a leap, but that is hardly a guarantee. But would it be sane to quit my job, just to be able to move? Perhaps if I had another job lined up, but what about just quitting and moving? Marriage is important to me (and based on my last post, I am apparently thirsting for a deeper relationship), but is dating above making a living for me? Is it a matter of Bitachon, that all will fall into place, or on the other hand should I worry that not having a job will handicap my Shidduch resume?
Then of course, there is the other factor, what I'd be leaving behind. First, one girl here actually scolded me for focusing my dating efforts on New York, since that wasn't giving the local girls a fair chance (who are apparently having a hard time finding eligible guys). But I've only had two dates in Chicago since I moved here; I don't think I have to sacrifice myself to the theoretical altar of waiting Maidels. Second, obviously my family is here. Oh right, that was never a factor for me. I'm not interested in living in Chicago long-term. But I'm not interested in living in New York either. So it really is just playing the game, coming home with a trophy (yes, I realize that is an obscene metaphor. Just chuckle and move on...), and taking her far away. Where I don't know, but I would not consider New York the first city on my list for raising my children.
It's a lot of strain facing such difficult choices in life. Sometimes we know which path we have to march down to get to our goal, even if the path turns out of sight into a dark and foreboding barrier.
# posted by Josh : Thursday, May 11, 2006
Comments:
<< Home
I wish I could give you some answers, but, I can't. Thanks though for the facebook add. It is much appreciated.
My advice, coming from someone who has moved to New York, is to make sure you are not moving only with dating to fill your life. Make sure you have other things to fill your day and to focus on. Good luck in making a good decision!
why can't i comment into your blog just lost my loong well thought out comment :(
# posted by 
: May 11, 2006 8:45 PM
: May 11, 2006 8:45 PM
It is never a good idea to transfer your life with a plunge. It is better to plan it and be happy with the results later on.
Hypothetically, [iyh not the case] say you do move and you don't find your bashert as quickly as you would hope/expect. How is the rest of your life doing? Do you have a life?
Moving to NY seems to be THE option for frum/jewish singles. This way dating does not have the hassles associated with dating out of town. As dating is less complicated [i.e. your investment in the date is only the time spent on the date and not the traveling etc...] it allows one to be more flexible and open in dating options [which is a good thing] :)
It is important when moving to make sure you have a job/ occupation that will keep you busy and your life fulfilled, an apt in an area where you can have 'shabbos' etc... and mostly to remain a happy content sane single as opposed to a misreable lonely bored frustrated bachelor.
There may be a fine line between the two but once you cross it....
While dating should be a focus at the appropriate desired time it should not be THE only focus. It can make one misreable and/or cause one to marry the wrong person.....
my .02 cents
Sara
[sorry no blogger id]
Hypothetically, [iyh not the case] say you do move and you don't find your bashert as quickly as you would hope/expect. How is the rest of your life doing? Do you have a life?
Moving to NY seems to be THE option for frum/jewish singles. This way dating does not have the hassles associated with dating out of town. As dating is less complicated [i.e. your investment in the date is only the time spent on the date and not the traveling etc...] it allows one to be more flexible and open in dating options [which is a good thing] :)
It is important when moving to make sure you have a job/ occupation that will keep you busy and your life fulfilled, an apt in an area where you can have 'shabbos' etc... and mostly to remain a happy content sane single as opposed to a misreable lonely bored frustrated bachelor.
There may be a fine line between the two but once you cross it....
While dating should be a focus at the appropriate desired time it should not be THE only focus. It can make one misreable and/or cause one to marry the wrong person.....
my .02 cents
Sara
[sorry no blogger id]
# posted by : May 11, 2006 8:55 PM
: May 11, 2006 8:55 PM
MH - Keep it coming; I'll crack eventually.
Timmie - You may not be able to give me an answer, but I'll bet you could give me your opinion. It sounds like this is similar to what you're doing...
Sh-ana - I definitely won't be moving to become a full time dater. But I do want to be able to date. The fact that I may or may not have a job wouldn't be so that I could date. In fact, even if I jump to New York, I probably wouldn't start dating until I was settled down. The idea is that I feel handicapped here. And the truth is, it's not just socially, it's professionally as well.
Anon - I've lost a few good ideas as well. I hope it was you who continued below...
Anon (Sara) - Thanks for your caution and concern. I've not reached the point of frustrated bachelor, not by a long shot. I'm not in distress at all, if anything, I'd call it boredom. It's not like I've been dating so much and nothing's worked out. There hasn't been anything going on. So moving is just my way of doing Hishtadlus, having the opportunity to try a normal dating process. Finding a job that is satisfying is part of the issue. I'm not satisfied in my current role, so I'd be shaking up both my professional and social networks in search of satisfaction. I will definitely have a life in New York. But it is a question of how much plunge I can handle at once. It's nice to have something to fall back on, some consistency so that as one world is weak, you can take joy out of another. I might be left too vulnerable unemployed and single in New York. But then again, better unemployed and single then unemployed and married.
Shosh - Part of why I feel uncomfortable is because I feel like I'm faking something going to a city I don't want to be in just because everyone else is there. I don't like being a follower. But it's a numbers game. Sure, I could meet people around the world with the internet, but here I am in Chicago with 10 vacation days a year before Jewish holidays. I can't just date around the world, it's not practical. I can't even handle travelling to date in New York, where I do have offers. But I have been suggested that Toronto might be good. Or Jerusalem.
MH - Thanks for the input. Your vote has been registered. I'll let you know when you can start setting me up.
OOT - Well played. You are right- I'm not interested in the New Yorker mentality. I like small town Jews. I feel they are more open minded and susceptible to the socio-cultural influence of the Jewish communities, and so I find their religion purer. But there are plenty of exceptions, and, as you noted, everyone has already relocated there...
Timmie - You may not be able to give me an answer, but I'll bet you could give me your opinion. It sounds like this is similar to what you're doing...
Sh-ana - I definitely won't be moving to become a full time dater. But I do want to be able to date. The fact that I may or may not have a job wouldn't be so that I could date. In fact, even if I jump to New York, I probably wouldn't start dating until I was settled down. The idea is that I feel handicapped here. And the truth is, it's not just socially, it's professionally as well.
Anon - I've lost a few good ideas as well. I hope it was you who continued below...
Anon (Sara) - Thanks for your caution and concern. I've not reached the point of frustrated bachelor, not by a long shot. I'm not in distress at all, if anything, I'd call it boredom. It's not like I've been dating so much and nothing's worked out. There hasn't been anything going on. So moving is just my way of doing Hishtadlus, having the opportunity to try a normal dating process. Finding a job that is satisfying is part of the issue. I'm not satisfied in my current role, so I'd be shaking up both my professional and social networks in search of satisfaction. I will definitely have a life in New York. But it is a question of how much plunge I can handle at once. It's nice to have something to fall back on, some consistency so that as one world is weak, you can take joy out of another. I might be left too vulnerable unemployed and single in New York. But then again, better unemployed and single then unemployed and married.
Shosh - Part of why I feel uncomfortable is because I feel like I'm faking something going to a city I don't want to be in just because everyone else is there. I don't like being a follower. But it's a numbers game. Sure, I could meet people around the world with the internet, but here I am in Chicago with 10 vacation days a year before Jewish holidays. I can't just date around the world, it's not practical. I can't even handle travelling to date in New York, where I do have offers. But I have been suggested that Toronto might be good. Or Jerusalem.
MH - Thanks for the input. Your vote has been registered. I'll let you know when you can start setting me up.
OOT - Well played. You are right- I'm not interested in the New Yorker mentality. I like small town Jews. I feel they are more open minded and susceptible to the socio-cultural influence of the Jewish communities, and so I find their religion purer. But there are plenty of exceptions, and, as you noted, everyone has already relocated there...
What can I say man? Its true. All the hot single frum babes are in NY. Thats why I live here. I'm a hot single frum babe. Gutin Shab Dude!
Yeah, I guess it is somewhat similar, but the difference is, I'm not going to broaden my dating horizons. I am, however, going because the guy I'm dating is already there. Before I started dating him I thought it was stupid to go to NY just to get set up with more people, but the fact is, there are more people in NY. And not all of them plan on staying in NY either. I definitely do not want to raise my children in NY and as soon as I'm done with school I'm outta there (and yes, my boyfriend knows this -- it is his plan as well). If you have the means to live in NY and have a job lined up, I think you should do it. Make the move, even if it is just to get set up with more women.
I can't stand New York. BUT it's a good place to get started in whatever business one hopes to work in and it's where all the frum singles have gotten themselves to. I would love to live in Montreal until I find my bashert and establish myself, but there's little to no frum dating and (unfortunately) that's the case almost everywhere.
Raising kids in NY? No way!
You're not selling yourself short to come, nor are you coming for the wrong reasons, just make it clear when you date that you're not staying here.
Besides, we miss you Joshy!
Raising kids in NY? No way!
You're not selling yourself short to come, nor are you coming for the wrong reasons, just make it clear when you date that you're not staying here.
Besides, we miss you Joshy!
josh -
new york new york, a wonderful town, the bronx is up and the battery's down...
nyc - what is it about you, you're big, you're loud, you're tough...
they say the neon lights are bright on broadway...
now - do they write songs about baltimore?
i rest my case :)
new york new york, a wonderful town, the bronx is up and the battery's down...
nyc - what is it about you, you're big, you're loud, you're tough...
they say the neon lights are bright on broadway...
now - do they write songs about baltimore?
i rest my case :)
Intriguing post. Now that I think about it, one of the reasons I moved to NY (also from a small suburb in the midwest) was for the social life -both in terms of friends and potential dates.
Growing up, I watched my older siblings go through torture trying to get guys to travel to the midwest for a date, or having to travel to ny for a weekend here and there, and it was honestly painful to watch. So as soon as I finished my shana bet in Israel, I moved to ny, where a lot of my family live anyway.
On the other hand (nothing's simple!), my older siblings who dated from out of town married, b"H, wonderful (also out of town) people. And, I agree with what nearly everyone said, being that if you do move, you need to move with the knowledge your life will be more than "Hi my name is Josh and I live in NY, and oh what do I do? I date."
Good luck with your decisions!!!:)
Growing up, I watched my older siblings go through torture trying to get guys to travel to the midwest for a date, or having to travel to ny for a weekend here and there, and it was honestly painful to watch. So as soon as I finished my shana bet in Israel, I moved to ny, where a lot of my family live anyway.
On the other hand (nothing's simple!), my older siblings who dated from out of town married, b"H, wonderful (also out of town) people. And, I agree with what nearly everyone said, being that if you do move, you need to move with the knowledge your life will be more than "Hi my name is Josh and I live in NY, and oh what do I do? I date."
Good luck with your decisions!!!:)
hey josh, ive lived and dated in and out of nyc. the good thing about being in nyc is that even if youre not dating or youre feeling bored, theres so much else to do that it boosts your morale and keeps you busy. on the other hand, nyc feels like one big singles event - everyone is always dating, talking about dating, whining about dating, going on dates, breaking off dates.. it gets to you!
ill tell you though, the main thing i dont like about nyc dating is that lots of singles there seem to have this very laid back attitude about it. when you date out of town, you appreciate every date you get, you take it seriously, you really date in the moment (cuz you know there arent many more out there!) but i feel that in nyc, poeple date with this attitude that theres 1 billion other singles to try out so they dont seem to put too much effot into the actual dates..
i'd say, moving to nyc is a good experience, whether you do find your wife there or not, try it out, youll enjoy it while youre there, and if in a year or two, its not working out, relocate. just dont get stuck there! good luck!
ill tell you though, the main thing i dont like about nyc dating is that lots of singles there seem to have this very laid back attitude about it. when you date out of town, you appreciate every date you get, you take it seriously, you really date in the moment (cuz you know there arent many more out there!) but i feel that in nyc, poeple date with this attitude that theres 1 billion other singles to try out so they dont seem to put too much effot into the actual dates..
i'd say, moving to nyc is a good experience, whether you do find your wife there or not, try it out, youll enjoy it while youre there, and if in a year or two, its not working out, relocate. just dont get stuck there! good luck!
Su - Maybe I should be intimidated by the scene in NY. I'm just a regular, low key kind of guy...
Timmie - Hopefully, anyone I date will appreciate my long term intentions. Although, I've dated a number of girls who had great open minded Hashkafas, but they still had this piece of NY personality ingrained in them. I'll find it though. Probably when I least expect it. And you just beat me on the new Blogroll. I was hoping to surprise you...
D - Truthfully, I would be coming as much for professional opportunity as for social opportunity (and professional life would be a lot harder to leave NY after I settle in, but that's another problem). There are frum girls elsewhere, but dating isn't about available girls. It's about people who can connect you and set you up with those girls. And that is something I only have in NY. As far as raising kids, it's very complex, but basically I like the out of town mentality of doing your own thing.
ML - You have no idea how much I love to explore new places. So you'd think now is an opportune time for me to branch out...unfortunately, in this frum world, I'd be handicapping myself. I'm on the brink of that age of "older singlehood", and I have to at least make an effort. But hopefully that special someone will have that same sense of freedom and adventure, and we'll find somewhere crazy to settle. Hope your couch is a doublewide.
MH - Let's not get carried away. I hate the city. It's the people that I'm coming for. I've never been to Broadway, nor do I have any interest. But I suppose it'll be a nice backdrop to write from...
D - You are so frum...
O - There are definitely local people to marry, and if I wasn't so complex, I think I'd probably be able to find somebody here. But as some of my readers might have guessed, there's a lot more layers with me, and I don't match up with most people. So as tight as NY can be in labelling people, there are just more people outside those boxes, for better and worse. Dating will definitely not be my only outlet, but hey, it might be interesting to try dating somebody for more than 2 dates. It'll be a new experience.
Mooks - Yikes, I hadn't really thought about being caught up in the dating obsessions. Nor am I interested in any of those diversions (although there a few great Batei Midrash!). But hopefully I'll escape it - I don't want to live in a single's community. Ideally, I'd like to board with a family in a suburb. Close enough to date, but in a more heimish atmosphere. I think that grounding is important for a single.
Timmie - Hopefully, anyone I date will appreciate my long term intentions. Although, I've dated a number of girls who had great open minded Hashkafas, but they still had this piece of NY personality ingrained in them. I'll find it though. Probably when I least expect it. And you just beat me on the new Blogroll. I was hoping to surprise you...
D - Truthfully, I would be coming as much for professional opportunity as for social opportunity (and professional life would be a lot harder to leave NY after I settle in, but that's another problem). There are frum girls elsewhere, but dating isn't about available girls. It's about people who can connect you and set you up with those girls. And that is something I only have in NY. As far as raising kids, it's very complex, but basically I like the out of town mentality of doing your own thing.
ML - You have no idea how much I love to explore new places. So you'd think now is an opportune time for me to branch out...unfortunately, in this frum world, I'd be handicapping myself. I'm on the brink of that age of "older singlehood", and I have to at least make an effort. But hopefully that special someone will have that same sense of freedom and adventure, and we'll find somewhere crazy to settle. Hope your couch is a doublewide.
MH - Let's not get carried away. I hate the city. It's the people that I'm coming for. I've never been to Broadway, nor do I have any interest. But I suppose it'll be a nice backdrop to write from...
D - You are so frum...
O - There are definitely local people to marry, and if I wasn't so complex, I think I'd probably be able to find somebody here. But as some of my readers might have guessed, there's a lot more layers with me, and I don't match up with most people. So as tight as NY can be in labelling people, there are just more people outside those boxes, for better and worse. Dating will definitely not be my only outlet, but hey, it might be interesting to try dating somebody for more than 2 dates. It'll be a new experience.
Mooks - Yikes, I hadn't really thought about being caught up in the dating obsessions. Nor am I interested in any of those diversions (although there a few great Batei Midrash!). But hopefully I'll escape it - I don't want to live in a single's community. Ideally, I'd like to board with a family in a suburb. Close enough to date, but in a more heimish atmosphere. I think that grounding is important for a single.
"I'm not interested in living in Chicago long-term. But I'm not interested in living in New York either. "
So where would u like to live long term?
"But I've only had two dates in Chicago since I moved here;"
Thats pathetic. There are many other people you should be going on dates with. You need to make more of a local effort.
So where would u like to live long term?
"But I've only had two dates in Chicago since I moved here;"
Thats pathetic. There are many other people you should be going on dates with. You need to make more of a local effort.
Timmie - Anytime!
David - Somewhere small, where there are probably very infintesimal odds of finding someone compatible. As far as the local market, you're assuming there either is a market that is up my alley, and that there is a way to penetrate this market. 18 months says you're mistaken...
David - Somewhere small, where there are probably very infintesimal odds of finding someone compatible. As far as the local market, you're assuming there either is a market that is up my alley, and that there is a way to penetrate this market. 18 months says you're mistaken...
DG - I know, I'm disappointed myself. But there's more than just dating. Do you know how many wedding's I've missed being in New York? Rent will be cheaper than airfare. I know there are plenty of girls here. I'm taking phone numbers. You know how to get in touch with me. Thanks for the offer ;)
Hi. I have a few things to say.
1. I have lived my whole life in NY - minus the 1 1/2 years I was in Israel. When I graduated college, I decided to move to Washington heights - a fairly large, and growing, singles community in Manhattan - where single people move mostly b/c it's cheap to live here, but also b/c it is a singles community. Yet no one wants to date b/c it's such a small community and what if you break up and then you bump into the dude in key food and that might cause a great disturbance in the force and destroy the space time continuum! Do you see the circular logic? I don't get it. But it is what it is. Anyways, I've been living in NY my whole life and I'm still single. On the other hand, one of my college roommates moved, for grad school, to some place in Yehubitzville in Pennsylvania where there are no jews, let alone single normal guys. She is now happily married and I think they had a baby....or she's about to pop...I don't remember. Another 3 friends of mine moved to Chicago and all got married. Another friend of mine moved from NY back to LA and met a girl and got married. Another guy I know from Penn is from NY, lives in Penn, and just married a girl from Oklahoma! Oklahoma! Are there even jews there?!? Well apparently there was one. I'm not saying ppl in NY don't get married. And I'm certainly not trying to discourage you from moving here. I'm just saying it can happen anywhere. So I don't think it matters Where you live. What matters is how much Chicago meat you bring to NY and whether you share it with me!
2. susqhb - You Are a hot babe!
3. That dating pool could use some more lifeguards!
1. I have lived my whole life in NY - minus the 1 1/2 years I was in Israel. When I graduated college, I decided to move to Washington heights - a fairly large, and growing, singles community in Manhattan - where single people move mostly b/c it's cheap to live here, but also b/c it is a singles community. Yet no one wants to date b/c it's such a small community and what if you break up and then you bump into the dude in key food and that might cause a great disturbance in the force and destroy the space time continuum! Do you see the circular logic? I don't get it. But it is what it is. Anyways, I've been living in NY my whole life and I'm still single. On the other hand, one of my college roommates moved, for grad school, to some place in Yehubitzville in Pennsylvania where there are no jews, let alone single normal guys. She is now happily married and I think they had a baby....or she's about to pop...I don't remember. Another 3 friends of mine moved to Chicago and all got married. Another friend of mine moved from NY back to LA and met a girl and got married. Another guy I know from Penn is from NY, lives in Penn, and just married a girl from Oklahoma! Oklahoma! Are there even jews there?!? Well apparently there was one. I'm not saying ppl in NY don't get married. And I'm certainly not trying to discourage you from moving here. I'm just saying it can happen anywhere. So I don't think it matters Where you live. What matters is how much Chicago meat you bring to NY and whether you share it with me!
2. susqhb - You Are a hot babe!
3. That dating pool could use some more lifeguards!
A - I've finally made it - You've arrived! There definitely is no magical effect of moving to NY for dating purposes. However, over the last year, I've gone out with 10 girls in NY and only 2 in Chicago. All were good experiences, but I can tell you it's very expensive and stressful to date while travelling. I get many more offers to go out in NY, and hopefully moving me will mean, if nothing else, that I'll eat well for a while...Between Sus and you, the city couldn't get any hotter!
Post a Comment
<< Home
