Sunday, May 14, 2006
Old Dog, New Tricks
I don't hate teachers. I never have. I've been the model student, and have had plenty of teachers that I've looked up to. So I can't figure out why I am so biased against dating girls who are teachers.
First off, more than half the women I've dated have been teachers. And my mother and grandmother are/were both teachers. I know people who are great teachers. But when it comes to being offered to get set up with a girl who teaches, I can't help but roll my eyes.
I'm not sure where this bias comes from. Maybe it is because I perceive girls who go into teaching as being too "inside the box," people unwilling to pursue their own self-fulfillment at the risk of being perceived as too independent. Maybe it is because I don't want to marry somebody like my mother, whom I perceive as too one-dimensional (Ma, if you're reading this, no offense. You're great, just not my type. Happy Mother's Day!) Maybe it is because I see too many people go into teaching as a demonstration of their religious committment instead of their qualifications for the job.
I don't know why it is such a turn off, but I definitely like the sound of pre-med or business over education. Of course, the irony is that I will probably end up marrying some uber-teacher.
First off, more than half the women I've dated have been teachers. And my mother and grandmother are/were both teachers. I know people who are great teachers. But when it comes to being offered to get set up with a girl who teaches, I can't help but roll my eyes.
I'm not sure where this bias comes from. Maybe it is because I perceive girls who go into teaching as being too "inside the box," people unwilling to pursue their own self-fulfillment at the risk of being perceived as too independent. Maybe it is because I don't want to marry somebody like my mother, whom I perceive as too one-dimensional (Ma, if you're reading this, no offense. You're great, just not my type. Happy Mother's Day!) Maybe it is because I see too many people go into teaching as a demonstration of their religious committment instead of their qualifications for the job.
I don't know why it is such a turn off, but I definitely like the sound of pre-med or business over education. Of course, the irony is that I will probably end up marrying some uber-teacher.
# posted by Josh : Sunday, May 14, 2006
Comments:
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The majority of frum women go in two fields:
1) Physical & Mental Health (nursing, OT, socail working, psycology)
2) Teaching
1) Physical & Mental Health (nursing, OT, socail working, psycology)
2) Teaching
omg thats hilarious! i have a bias against doctors and it drives my parents mad, but i just cant deal with the idea of dating or marrying a doctor - to the point that ill do whatever i can to avoid it.. such strange, preconceived notions we have.. lets just jope our future spouses dont feel this way about bloggers :)
We all want an interesting girl, teachers are just too standard. So either we must find those who aren't teachers or a girl's amazing personality must make up for her lack of originality in profession choices.
I agree that if a girl has given up her dreams and who has become a teacher because she's submitting then it's not someone whom I desire either.
I agree that if a girl has given up her dreams and who has become a teacher because she's submitting then it's not someone whom I desire either.
Whether or not unqualified girls are going into education as a means of directing and method of implementing a well-meaning religious conviction, or are too sheltered and afraid of the outside world to the extent that they are unwilling to forge a path and plant a stake in the secular world, or some hybrid of the above, one of those girls will be one of the leading educators that will shape the next generation of children with whom she comes into contact (whether that be by dint of the sheer numbers of girls in education that one is bound to have natural educational talent [an admittedly more pessimistic outlook] or by the fact that these girls are bright and just need time to adjust and eventually shine]. So be wary about whom you are rejecting. I always thought of you as one of the few people that try not to judge without getting to know the real person (an admirable and emulatable trait to be sure). I still do.
So I read your post, during a class, and I had ot try hard not to react to it. I have had this conversation with my mother, the "you should become a teacher, it'll be easier, do you they always need physics teacher" which i was not okay with. I gave up any desire to become a teacher years ago, i think if i went into it i would be doing it for the wrong reasons and kids deserve the best teachers in the world, education should be more important. anyway, point is, i was a little hurt - my mother saying I can't cut it in politics or government (or something similar) due to my lifestyle? yea, i wasn't so happy about it. that's my story for the day. have a good monday!
I should start by encouraging everybody to read Michelle's most recent post, which discusses the same issue from the other side - available here.
David - I won't deny (your unproven) emprirical evidence. But despite certain gender stereotypes (which I know you would never let influence you), I don't think that women have to fill these careers. It seems to me that frum women pursuse these careers in higher percentages, and I wonder how many of these are doing it out of passion and energy to the field, and how many out of inertia.
Mookie - It definitely has an irrational element, although I'll admit, I have no problem marrying a teacher- it's just that I have this nagging feeling when getting set up with them, like "oh great, another teacher."
Sh - If a frum girl goes into biology, you know she is doing what she loves. Otherwise she wouldn't be swimming against the current to pursue it. Sounds like an interesting person! BB, I don't want to hear any biologist bashing!
Du - I don't think it's just a question of originality. I'm not looking to date astronauts because it's quirky. I'm not looking to show off some rare specimen. But I am looking for someone who pursues their own goals and agenda, and when a girl goes into teaching/therapy, I question whether she is just going along for the ride.
DG - Very true, although I have no problem if somebody actually is better at teaching than doing. As long as their good at teaching, that's all that matters. But you're right - teaching isn't a weighstation for people who need to support families. It's one of the most important and formative influences on children and young adults, and those people need a blend of creativity, passion, and dedication, no less than a doctor does for his role. Like you, I want to spend my life (and raise my kids) with that passion. Yes, I plan on bringing it in from my side. So I don't think it's crazy to want both parents to have similar approaches to life. There are plenty of guys that go into teaching or kollel for the same reason, so I'm not worried that these women won't find their bashert. Although that culture of passively moving through life is a scary one when we consider that Judaism needs to be lived actively.
WWFF - I'm pretty sure we agree here. I'm not denigrating the profession. Those individuals who are qualified for the role will play a vital, groundbreaking stake in many lives. It is a very admirable profession. But it is the many others who follow the flock into the profession that scare me. It's an easy choice, but that doesn't make it a right choice for everybody. I'm not judging all teachers. But when I get set up with one, I realize that I now have to weed out the dedicated teacher from the passive teacher. I could very likely end up marrying one, but hopefully it'll be because she's of the ideal type. But with so many teachers going into that field because they are encouraged to, it means a lot of dates that won't go anywhere. When you're dating a girl in Medical School, you know she is going into it because she wants it (she might want it for the wrong reasons, but at least she wants it). I would never hold any external factor against a person, but teaching is just a big "oy."
C - I'm not with your mother. I think you can cut it in politics. It's just a shame though that your mother's views are the prevailing one's in society - that a woman should just go into teaching, whether for the flexible work/life, ease of finding a job, and lack of grad school as a requirement. Sometimes I forget that even today, many people still work in personally unfullfilling jobs just for the money. I assume that everyone thinks first, and applies second. Hopefully we'll all find what makes us happy. And happy workers are productive workers.
David - I won't deny (your unproven) emprirical evidence. But despite certain gender stereotypes (which I know you would never let influence you), I don't think that women have to fill these careers. It seems to me that frum women pursuse these careers in higher percentages, and I wonder how many of these are doing it out of passion and energy to the field, and how many out of inertia.
Mookie - It definitely has an irrational element, although I'll admit, I have no problem marrying a teacher- it's just that I have this nagging feeling when getting set up with them, like "oh great, another teacher."
Sh - If a frum girl goes into biology, you know she is doing what she loves. Otherwise she wouldn't be swimming against the current to pursue it. Sounds like an interesting person! BB, I don't want to hear any biologist bashing!
Du - I don't think it's just a question of originality. I'm not looking to date astronauts because it's quirky. I'm not looking to show off some rare specimen. But I am looking for someone who pursues their own goals and agenda, and when a girl goes into teaching/therapy, I question whether she is just going along for the ride.
DG - Very true, although I have no problem if somebody actually is better at teaching than doing. As long as their good at teaching, that's all that matters. But you're right - teaching isn't a weighstation for people who need to support families. It's one of the most important and formative influences on children and young adults, and those people need a blend of creativity, passion, and dedication, no less than a doctor does for his role. Like you, I want to spend my life (and raise my kids) with that passion. Yes, I plan on bringing it in from my side. So I don't think it's crazy to want both parents to have similar approaches to life. There are plenty of guys that go into teaching or kollel for the same reason, so I'm not worried that these women won't find their bashert. Although that culture of passively moving through life is a scary one when we consider that Judaism needs to be lived actively.
WWFF - I'm pretty sure we agree here. I'm not denigrating the profession. Those individuals who are qualified for the role will play a vital, groundbreaking stake in many lives. It is a very admirable profession. But it is the many others who follow the flock into the profession that scare me. It's an easy choice, but that doesn't make it a right choice for everybody. I'm not judging all teachers. But when I get set up with one, I realize that I now have to weed out the dedicated teacher from the passive teacher. I could very likely end up marrying one, but hopefully it'll be because she's of the ideal type. But with so many teachers going into that field because they are encouraged to, it means a lot of dates that won't go anywhere. When you're dating a girl in Medical School, you know she is going into it because she wants it (she might want it for the wrong reasons, but at least she wants it). I would never hold any external factor against a person, but teaching is just a big "oy."
C - I'm not with your mother. I think you can cut it in politics. It's just a shame though that your mother's views are the prevailing one's in society - that a woman should just go into teaching, whether for the flexible work/life, ease of finding a job, and lack of grad school as a requirement. Sometimes I forget that even today, many people still work in personally unfullfilling jobs just for the money. I assume that everyone thinks first, and applies second. Hopefully we'll all find what makes us happy. And happy workers are productive workers.
josh - i don't think you should hold it against someone for going into a field for practical reasons. if a woman wants to be a homemaker and raise a family, a job/career that lends itself to part-time scheduling and easy commuting is ideal. i don't believe that women should be required to have a demanding full-time career in addition to doing everything else. this is a new phenomenon. you have no idea how demanding these jobs can be and how many compromises you have to make to do it all. and...if someone majors in an "interesting" field and then ends up not using it - but it just impresses you - then how worthwhile is that? one more thing - the job or major you start with is not necessarily what you end up doing down the road. many people start off in law or accounting or whatever, and end up branching out into something else. for every guy out there who's bored with the pt/ot/st/teacher, there's someone else who's afraid of a girl who's too ambitious or career oriented. and when someone is young and at this important decision making stage, it can be hard to know what to do.
Josh - Until very recently I was a teacher and certainly don't consider myself someone who is trapped in the box...
Addendum - The above comment is only intended to illustrate a point. No one reading this blog should assume that I am puttin' the moves on our fine friend here. :)
josh!! I just read your post, and, um, I was sooo surprised. It actually shocks me how differently I see the teaching profession.
For about a year and a half I was fighting against being a teacher--people told me I should be a teacher, I said no. Not because I thought it was a bad job, but because I didn't think I'd like it, be good at it. But eventually, and only more recently, my desire to share my "gifts" and education and love of Hashem and torah won over any protestations. Yeah, I am going to law school next year, and I'm looking forward to it. But I'll miss teaching. Maybe I'll somehow manage to save the world a little bit as a lawyer, but I know I'm saving the world in a significant part every day just by teaching navi.
I know the above sort of sounds like I'm defending myself, but it really frustrates me when people are facinated by my future law school attendance and bored when I discuss my current role as a teacher. Priorities people! Money vs. souls? I'd want to be on the latter team every time.
Ok, that's it, I'm going to write a post about teaching. Josh, you forced me into it.
Just don't forget that until you talk to more teachers, you can't know why they're teaching.
For about a year and a half I was fighting against being a teacher--people told me I should be a teacher, I said no. Not because I thought it was a bad job, but because I didn't think I'd like it, be good at it. But eventually, and only more recently, my desire to share my "gifts" and education and love of Hashem and torah won over any protestations. Yeah, I am going to law school next year, and I'm looking forward to it. But I'll miss teaching. Maybe I'll somehow manage to save the world a little bit as a lawyer, but I know I'm saving the world in a significant part every day just by teaching navi.
I know the above sort of sounds like I'm defending myself, but it really frustrates me when people are facinated by my future law school attendance and bored when I discuss my current role as a teacher. Priorities people! Money vs. souls? I'd want to be on the latter team every time.
Ok, that's it, I'm going to write a post about teaching. Josh, you forced me into it.
Just don't forget that until you talk to more teachers, you can't know why they're teaching.
im waving my protest flag!!! protest! protest! protest! imgonna be a teacher bc i think that its one of the most amazing things you can do with your life, and i love giving and teaching kids.....are you bashing teachers???? im posting in protest, and in agreement to yours! i agree that some teachers shouldnt be teaching, but what about those who teach cuz they care???
by the way, sorry if that sounds like im screaming- i am in a way, but im a little off tonight, so ull have to cut my screaming a little slack. but i still disagree with you!
I have that same "icky" feeling about young female teachers. It seems like they're just taking the easy way out or showing how great of a mother they'll be by teaching the next generation their first words of Torah, but there are young female girls out there who become teachers because it is what they love doing. And some are actually doing it because they do want to be able to teach the next generation their first words of Torah. Not because it will make them seem more frum, but because the Torah is that important to them and they want to pass it on. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to point out here, since I still have prejudices against these teachers, but take from this what you will.
D - I don't know, but maybe all the one's interested in setting up the "easy" matches will back off. That'll save me some hassle.
E - I may be overreaching in my generalization, not from rhetoric, but from jaded experience. Maybe the numbers aren't as inflated as I perceive them. It just seems that I've met so many people who confuse their motherly tendencies with the teaching profession. I think there is plenty of opportunity to influence another generation with love and affection in our own kids. I don't think this automatically translates into being a good teacher. It's specifically because I recognize the supreme importance of teachers that I am frustrated. They play such a vital role, so isn't it a shame that so many people just fall into it? Keep in mind that the perspective of the post was not meant to criticize teachers for being in it for the wrong reason. This was a dating post, about me finding somebody who complements me. I am frustrating with dating teachers who are using it as a bridge to explain the unmarried time in their lives, girls who hadn't anticipated having to ever work, but now must find something to look like they have a purpose in life. Of course, many go to Law School too. My point was that I take a women's self-fullfillment seriously, not that all teachers should go on trial.
OK - You are exactly the kind of person I do respect. Somebody who has explored all her interests, and is making a meaningful decision to you. Or at least that's my impression. Do you think I value women who go into a profession for the money? They are the worst kind of lemmings. The only difference is that instead of becoming teachers because that's the gender role society has made for them, they are pursuing money because that is the value that society has made for everyone. I respect somebody who is trying to find out what they can do best in the world. There is no universal answer to that. Of course, we have to recognize our talents, not just our interests, and train ourselves properly for our career. Being a teacher isn't just about recognizing how formative you can be to a child. It's taking that recognition and playing all the parts that requires. Some people want to be astronauts, but they'll never make it to the moon. There is a whole additional problem of girls who don't look at money as a factor in their jobs, but they expect their husbands to bring home the bacon. In my mind, money shouldn't be a factor for either. You can live on happiness.
C - I'm sorry if I upset you. I see nothing wrong with teachers. They are great people with great influence, when they do it right. If that is the career that is right for you. You obviously have a lot of passion, and a lot of talent at explaining things (although I don't know if your students will be able to relate to you- you're kind of on a different level). Every generation has it's revolutionaries that better their field. You may be one of them.
T - Thanks for your support. It's definitely not a complaint against the profession, but those who view it as a side hobby or something, and don't commit themselves to doing it right. I wouldn't respect that in any profession, but I don't find too many girls like that in Med School.
E - I may be overreaching in my generalization, not from rhetoric, but from jaded experience. Maybe the numbers aren't as inflated as I perceive them. It just seems that I've met so many people who confuse their motherly tendencies with the teaching profession. I think there is plenty of opportunity to influence another generation with love and affection in our own kids. I don't think this automatically translates into being a good teacher. It's specifically because I recognize the supreme importance of teachers that I am frustrated. They play such a vital role, so isn't it a shame that so many people just fall into it? Keep in mind that the perspective of the post was not meant to criticize teachers for being in it for the wrong reason. This was a dating post, about me finding somebody who complements me. I am frustrating with dating teachers who are using it as a bridge to explain the unmarried time in their lives, girls who hadn't anticipated having to ever work, but now must find something to look like they have a purpose in life. Of course, many go to Law School too. My point was that I take a women's self-fullfillment seriously, not that all teachers should go on trial.
OK - You are exactly the kind of person I do respect. Somebody who has explored all her interests, and is making a meaningful decision to you. Or at least that's my impression. Do you think I value women who go into a profession for the money? They are the worst kind of lemmings. The only difference is that instead of becoming teachers because that's the gender role society has made for them, they are pursuing money because that is the value that society has made for everyone. I respect somebody who is trying to find out what they can do best in the world. There is no universal answer to that. Of course, we have to recognize our talents, not just our interests, and train ourselves properly for our career. Being a teacher isn't just about recognizing how formative you can be to a child. It's taking that recognition and playing all the parts that requires. Some people want to be astronauts, but they'll never make it to the moon. There is a whole additional problem of girls who don't look at money as a factor in their jobs, but they expect their husbands to bring home the bacon. In my mind, money shouldn't be a factor for either. You can live on happiness.
C - I'm sorry if I upset you. I see nothing wrong with teachers. They are great people with great influence, when they do it right. If that is the career that is right for you. You obviously have a lot of passion, and a lot of talent at explaining things (although I don't know if your students will be able to relate to you- you're kind of on a different level). Every generation has it's revolutionaries that better their field. You may be one of them.
T - Thanks for your support. It's definitely not a complaint against the profession, but those who view it as a side hobby or something, and don't commit themselves to doing it right. I wouldn't respect that in any profession, but I don't find too many girls like that in Med School.
talk about being biased, but it's understandable you have reservations about dating someone who's chances of being like your mother are higher.
MH - I guess it's important to start off understanding my Hashkafa regarding work. It's not just about money. Every time of employment is an opportunity to make the world a better place. When we choose a profession, that is our opportunity to make the biggest impact as possible on the world. So, yes, does part of the frum world advise people to take convenient jobs? Yes. But I disagree with the Hashkafa that generates this attitude. Work is not evil. But my point isn't that I'm looking for somebody with an interesting career. I'm looking for somebody interested in their career. Kids grow up. What do you plan on doing when you're 50? You may have to put your dreams on hold, but that doesn't mean you should deny your dreams. There is no difference between the woman who pursues an interesting major but has no interest in pursuing that career and somebody who pursues an uninteresting major with intention of pursuing it. They will both end up unhappy, in my mind. That doesn't mean that being a mommy will leave them unhappy. It just means that going into any other job is not helpful to their employer or their own happiness. I'd like a women that does things she feels are worthwhile. Obviously, my ideal isn't for everyone. If a girl wants a guy who wants a non-ambitious girl, then she can close the circle by being non-ambitious. But in my mind, people are best off being themselves first, and pleasing others second. That is the girl I'm looking for.
Elster - I'm not sure what you're so upset about. Yes, I use rhetoric to get my point across, but your last line says it best, "Those people who lack independence and who seemingly can't find real jobs are the same people who shape the future." Scary. While I accept that as reality, I have no reason to accept that as my own ideal, or a value that will be half of my family.
AS - I by no means think all teachers fall into this category. There are many talented, inspirational teachers out there. Our children deserve no less. If you are one of the teachers taking advantage of the benefits of the job, hopefully you at least realize the vital role you play by default in kids' lives. And I by no means want to get in the way of Soulmate...
T - Yes, I am a frum guy pursuing a career I enjoy, and accordingly I can't respect frum girls pursuing careers they don't enjoy. There are numerous reasons why that might be the case, and I don't think they are boring or dull or bad for doing so. But they aren't what I'm looking for.
BB - Cucumbers are a marriage substitute.
Anon- Wow, my blog has gone literary...
O - It's tough taking something seriously, only to have everyone else make it that much harder to be taken seriously by going into a profession for a wrong reason. Obviously, frum women want flexibility and a paycheck. But like any field, it requires serious training to be good. I feel bad for you that you have to separate yourself from the frum teaching world just to be taken seriously. The frum world needs to demand more from its teachers, and not view them as a Tzedaka. Good teachers make good students.
OOT - Thankfully you understood me. But I think you misunderstood Orlee. She meant to defend me, by defending the integrity of the teaching profession necessary for it to do its job.
Elster - I'm not sure what you're so upset about. Yes, I use rhetoric to get my point across, but your last line says it best, "Those people who lack independence and who seemingly can't find real jobs are the same people who shape the future." Scary. While I accept that as reality, I have no reason to accept that as my own ideal, or a value that will be half of my family.
AS - I by no means think all teachers fall into this category. There are many talented, inspirational teachers out there. Our children deserve no less. If you are one of the teachers taking advantage of the benefits of the job, hopefully you at least realize the vital role you play by default in kids' lives. And I by no means want to get in the way of Soulmate...
T - Yes, I am a frum guy pursuing a career I enjoy, and accordingly I can't respect frum girls pursuing careers they don't enjoy. There are numerous reasons why that might be the case, and I don't think they are boring or dull or bad for doing so. But they aren't what I'm looking for.
BB - Cucumbers are a marriage substitute.
Anon- Wow, my blog has gone literary...
O - It's tough taking something seriously, only to have everyone else make it that much harder to be taken seriously by going into a profession for a wrong reason. Obviously, frum women want flexibility and a paycheck. But like any field, it requires serious training to be good. I feel bad for you that you have to separate yourself from the frum teaching world just to be taken seriously. The frum world needs to demand more from its teachers, and not view them as a Tzedaka. Good teachers make good students.
OOT - Thankfully you understood me. But I think you misunderstood Orlee. She meant to defend me, by defending the integrity of the teaching profession necessary for it to do its job.
Josh,
Stop defending yourself. Your candor is wonderful. Keep it up.
I was a teacher. Teachers, no matter how laudable and necessary the profession they have chosen, choose teaching for certain reasons, least of all is that their personalities match the job requirements (in most cases.) The same thing applies to police, military, or skilled trades. You don't just work as a teacher, you ARE a teacher. It doesn't stop when you get home to your family.
The melamud whose son turns out to be an am-haaretz probably has a great relationship with his father, because he actually knows his dad AS a dad and not exclusively as a teacher.
On the other hand, I would advise you not to limit your prospects. Even after I gained a great deal of experience with women (post going off the derech), I made some rules and limits on who I would date based upon a long list of likes and dislikes I formulated for the sole intent of finding the 'perfect' woman. It seemed like a good plan at the time.
You just never know.
Kol Tuv
Stop defending yourself. Your candor is wonderful. Keep it up.
I was a teacher. Teachers, no matter how laudable and necessary the profession they have chosen, choose teaching for certain reasons, least of all is that their personalities match the job requirements (in most cases.) The same thing applies to police, military, or skilled trades. You don't just work as a teacher, you ARE a teacher. It doesn't stop when you get home to your family.
The melamud whose son turns out to be an am-haaretz probably has a great relationship with his father, because he actually knows his dad AS a dad and not exclusively as a teacher.
On the other hand, I would advise you not to limit your prospects. Even after I gained a great deal of experience with women (post going off the derech), I made some rules and limits on who I would date based upon a long list of likes and dislikes I formulated for the sole intent of finding the 'perfect' woman. It seemed like a good plan at the time.
You just never know.
Kol Tuv
D - I don't know, but if I do, it'll be one who understands me...
E - Potato, Potatoe. I'm not bashing the profession, but what I see about the peaple going in. We have similar families. I'm just not convinced that the crucial field of teaching is actually taken seriously by the frum girls who often pursue it. Many want to be mothers, and look for a job that will complement that goal. But that doesn't mean that they are good at it, or take it seriously. How many get advanced degrees? How many even keep teaching after they find somebody to support them? Am I cynical? I can't tell...
OK - I think we agree, in principle at least. It's just a question of what is actually motivating people and what are their skills. We each have our Tafkid in life, and the goal is to puruse that individual purpose. Despite what we may be taught, there is no universal "if you really want to be a bas torah..." role.
Chantzie - I think we agree as well. If you are so passionate and capable, then you couldn't be making a wiser decision. You certainly have the energy for the job...
Timmie - I think wanting to pass down vital traditions is great, but not everyone is cut out for doing that in a classroom. Passion is only half the game. And we'll all have that opportunity (and obligation) to do so for our families, so we shouldn't feel that the only outlet will be a classroom.
P - Don't worry, still dating teachers without bias. It works well - I know exactly what to look out for. You can date somebody in law school, and assume they're pursuing their dreams, but really they just want to be a teacher. You have to have an open mind, and let each girl explain her decisions. That is the key to finding your bashert. I just wish I'd find some explanations that I could understand already...
E - Definitely am a pot stirrer. I am not disparaging a profession. Just it's actual footsoldiers.
SLA - There's nothing I admire than pure motivations. I wish I saw it in the teaching world today on a wider scale. Not to say it isn't there, but there are so many false reasons to go into teaching, that it is tough picking the wheat from the chaffe. But that is what dating is all about, and I'm up to the challenge (however reluctantly)
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E - Potato, Potatoe. I'm not bashing the profession, but what I see about the peaple going in. We have similar families. I'm just not convinced that the crucial field of teaching is actually taken seriously by the frum girls who often pursue it. Many want to be mothers, and look for a job that will complement that goal. But that doesn't mean that they are good at it, or take it seriously. How many get advanced degrees? How many even keep teaching after they find somebody to support them? Am I cynical? I can't tell...
OK - I think we agree, in principle at least. It's just a question of what is actually motivating people and what are their skills. We each have our Tafkid in life, and the goal is to puruse that individual purpose. Despite what we may be taught, there is no universal "if you really want to be a bas torah..." role.
Chantzie - I think we agree as well. If you are so passionate and capable, then you couldn't be making a wiser decision. You certainly have the energy for the job...
Timmie - I think wanting to pass down vital traditions is great, but not everyone is cut out for doing that in a classroom. Passion is only half the game. And we'll all have that opportunity (and obligation) to do so for our families, so we shouldn't feel that the only outlet will be a classroom.
P - Don't worry, still dating teachers without bias. It works well - I know exactly what to look out for. You can date somebody in law school, and assume they're pursuing their dreams, but really they just want to be a teacher. You have to have an open mind, and let each girl explain her decisions. That is the key to finding your bashert. I just wish I'd find some explanations that I could understand already...
E - Definitely am a pot stirrer. I am not disparaging a profession. Just it's actual footsoldiers.
SLA - There's nothing I admire than pure motivations. I wish I saw it in the teaching world today on a wider scale. Not to say it isn't there, but there are so many false reasons to go into teaching, that it is tough picking the wheat from the chaffe. But that is what dating is all about, and I'm up to the challenge (however reluctantly)
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