Why Josh Can't Be Left Alone

good luck, sounds like youre getting out of your comfort zone. thats always a good thing, as long as you stay focused on your end goals!
 

Good luck! Too bad you're not a female... we could get an apartment together, lol (needless to say, I'm looking for a place to live in NY as well since I havent heard any news of being accepted or rejected by the dorm)...
 

Ok. Mazel tov. I think you need to board with a family in an area with a lot of frum Jews. If you don't have that environment, you're liable to lose your stability, and fall, chas veshalom.
Healthy food is an issue, but if you only buy healthy, you'll only eat healthy. And so it goes in life. If you only surround yourself with good people, then the mistakes that you make will reflect that, and be far less severe. It's going to take some growing up, but if you make sure your feet are firmly planted in the right place, then you'll be able to branch out and develop yourself properly. Hatzlacha! (And by the way, this time, I'm third, not first. But it'll be good to see you post more often.)
 

Yay!! Josh in NY! I have 12 girls for you! Okay, maybe not, but it'll be good for your career as well as your finding a girl.

Do people really board with families? I didn't know. I would love to have a mommy here!

Be seein ya.
 

"Am I really best off relocating to New York? Am I emotionally solid enough for life on my own? Will I remember to eat healthy food?" - Josh

My first insatinct is to say: OF COURSE YOU SHOULD COME TO NEW YORK!!! YES, you're emotionally solid enough for life on your own. People do it all the time and probably at younger ages (i.e., people who go far away to college). Moreover, of course you will eat healthy - what with so many gourmet food shops in New York.

Looking at the company locations in the New York area, I would look at the Metro North and New Jersey Transit/PATH websites and look at the boutes of the trains. As for Tarrytown, it is 25 miles from Grand Central Station, a 30 minute drive. There is a Metro North stop there on their Hudson line. Even if it's not near the Tarrytown stop it could be near another stop on the Harlem Line. If the location is near the Metro North stop you could live in Manhattan and take the train up to work. Many people do the reverse every day. Alternatiovely, you could live in Rockland County, which would be WAY closer if you stay close to the Tappan Zee Bridge, but you will need a car. However, my impression is that Rockland County is more family oriented there and so the singles scene won't be as good as in Manhattan. See http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/mnr/index.html for details on Metro North.

Even if it is not so close to the station, the company might have a shuttle bus from the train station to the company's building. There is a similar deal in White Plains for the industrial office park outside of White Plains. I also saw on my Westchester bus map that there is a Westchester County bus that goes down Route 9 from the Tarrytown station on Metro North that likely stops at or near the company.The ride looks short.

Similar deal if the job is in the New Jersey location. It's about the same distance from Manhattan(about 26 miles, or a 35 minute drive). I don't know as much about their system, but you can look up directions on: http://www.njtransit.com/. PATH accepts NYC Metrocards and has direct subway links from various points in Manhattan, for instance.

But check it out. You don't have to ba an "out of town Jew" now if you don't want to be.
 

One note about NJ Transit - the public transportation outside of the PATH trains is generally less reliable than in Westchester.
 

Good luck with your move - an in living in New York! It takes a lot for an out-of-towner (believe me!).
 

You're absolutely right about new problems arising. That's life. Are you ready? Are any of us ever ready is the question! You'll find your niche wherever you go. Surround yourself with good people and don't isolate yourself from your friends. You'll be in New York closer to them...don't forget to make the effort to be with them. They miss you at their simchas, just as much as you miss them.

As far as food is concerned...see your israeli son for details...
 

Mookie - Yeah, even though I sound uncomfortable about leaving my comfort zone, that is definitely one of my goals - forcing myself to face it. Hopefully, though, I'll adapt quickly and create a new comfort zone. I can definitely be happy anywhere, I just have to remember to work at it.

Timmie - What would Corey Say!?! I do know some girls looking for apartments though...I guess you and I might
be going through a lot of the same issues next year. It'll be interesting to compare our adjustments.

Ch - Living with a family definitely sounds like the ideal to me, since I'm very big on coming home to a lively family, not an empty bachelor pad. I think it's better for the Neshoma to be surrounded by good influences, but it also gives us more purpose, people to help everyday, instead of coming back to a quiet house.

DYS - What are you a pimp? I'm buying...JK. It's funny, because nobody seems to live with families after high school. But it seems like the natural thing for a Jew. Unfortunately, it seems like any community where I could board would certainly isolate me from my peers. But it would come with furniture and food, which would be a huge plus from living in a cave in Washington Heights!

Treif- Thank you so much for the vote of confidence as well as very solid practical guidance. I'm glad reverse commuting wouldn't be as obscene as I pictured it (or alternatively, using public transportation to get back into the city). I do have a car now, so I plan on bringing it with me, although I suppose I'd have to do something with it if I live in the city. I suppose the question is do I want to be an out of town Jew. I definitely don't want to be a New Yorker. I just want to live close to them.

Sh-ana - I'm definitely not the first, or last, to do this. Just curious, how's Passaic?

IMM - That was beautiful advice. Friends are very important to me, and I hope I don't get fooled by the proximity into neglecting the opportunity to stay connected. Hopefully, I'll get around for Shabbosos. And I'll make it to their family Bar Mitzvos. Facing the obstacles will make me a better person, so ready or not, I know I'll come out more complete. As far as my Israeli son, have you checked his daily menu? How mach Abigaels can a guy eat?
 

You got parking in the YU lots on me if you decide to grace our community with your presence...but you can't ask any questions as to how I have the pass...and let me borrow the car every so often...and have a chevruta with me...
 

Good luck in making the choice that will suit you best.
 

Passaic's okay, it's starting to grow on me now. For someone who is really an out-of-towner, I find it not as warm as other communities. For someone from Brooklyn, it's the friendliest place on earth. But in general, the people there are pretty hospitable.
 

you and dys could be roommates. kill 2 birds with one stone.
 

Josh and dys roomates....oy....that would be an interesting sight. As for the parking pass...you can thank me ;-)
 

inmymind - and why is that?
an interesting sight, or an interesting combination? we're not talking bloodshed, are we?
 

Mata Hari -- there just might be some bloodshed between those two....Beware...
 

Josh - Now maybe I am bised here, but while you say you don't want to be a New Yorker, you just want to live near New Yorkers, it is likely that your social life will suck you into Manhattan until it makes more sense to live there.

Metro North shuts down eery night at 1:30AM. Parties, including many Jewish parties, often don't start until 10 and even 11PM. They don't really get happening until after midnight. If you have to be at Grand Central Station by 1:30 that means having to leave parties sometimes at 12:30 and 12:45 AM, just when things get happening, to catch the train.

I know because my existence is similar with the express busses in the Bronx. Moreover, I have seen the suburbanites scurrying to catch trains at 12:30 and 1:30AM. I have done the late night scurrying myself. They even did a story about it in the NYT. A taxi to Westchester costs some $70, I believe.

You could solve this problem by crashing with friends when there's a party that keeps you in Manhattan late, but you may find yourself doing it often. Grand Central is teh only Metro North stop in Manhattan besides 125th street which is far away. If you miss teh train at Grand Central you will also miss it at 125th street unless you are already uptown.

Parking is extremely expensive in Manhattan. If you live there you will likely be getting rid of yor car or at least not using it often. A car is more of a burden in most parts of NYC.

Once again, you don't have to live in the 5 boroughs, but it is in your best interest as a single frum guy in the New York Metropolitan area to do so. If you take teh job in Westchester, it will be better to live on the East side of Manhattan, preferrably near stops for the 4 and 5 express (subway)trains. The Upper East Side has many nice Orthodox Synagogues (including Kehillat Yeshurun on 85th Street. My friend goes there. Rav Solovetchik's son is the Rabbi there, I believe. And Rebbetzin Jungreis gives shi'urim there). Rents are also a bit cheaper on the Upper East Side east of 3rd Avenue or north of 86th Street or so and perhaps south of 659th street.

I would avoid living on the Upper West Side. The West 90's are known as "The Shtetl" and everyone is in everyone's business. Then again it may feel warm and cozy depending on your perspective. It is also the location of two apartment buildings at about 96th and Columbus that are notorious with the frum singles scene as well as OZ, a shul that is central to the serious frum singles scene. Moreover, I haven't seen one decent apartment in that area. Everyone cuts iup apartments in order to stuff as many people as possible into them. You want to visit without living there.

If it were up to me, I would live in Chelsea, but it is not such a good frum scene. The Village has some Orthodox shuls but the pickings aren't as good as in Upper Manhattan. Peopel I know in teh Village go to the Charles STreet shul, which is Orthodox but is also very open to non-Orthodox. I also know a frum guy who lives in the Village (and has lived there for 11 years) and runs a nice minyan there. I could tell you about it if you like. He also keeps a blog. Through him you could find out a lot more about resources for frunkeit in the Greenwich Village area. From what I have seen the frum communities of Lower Manhattan seem to be pretty cool. Frum yet openminded and tolerant. You might fit in well there. At the guy's minyan in the Villege, I met all kinds of Orthodox Jewish artists as well as lawyers and accountants. One woman I met was Orthodox AND a member of the Rockettes! She's married, though, so you're outta luck, but it's still good to know.

If you want to be adventurous, you could do the Lower East Side. It appears that some frum families are moving there. Classic Orthodox shuls still operate there (notably the Bialystoker Shul, where they have occasional Shabbat meals and Shabbatonim for singles).

Washington Heights might be cheaper but I don't know the landscape there. I would also suggest Harlem along Frederick Douglas Boulevard (Central Park West) between 110th and 120th. The area is gentrifying and teh rents are cheaper than in the UWS proper and the apartments are bigger. You could get Metro North from 125th street. And you would still be walking distance to the shuls on teh Upper West Side.

If you took the job in Jersey, I would suggest living on the West side, along the A/C/E lines on the subway if you must take the bus or the 1/2/3 lines if you are taking PATH. You might then have to bite teh bullet and live on teh Upper West Side. If you do, then avoid the 90s. Or don't.
 

"659th STreet" - I meant 59th Street
 

If you want a frum environment with relatively cheap rents in a place that is car-friendly, I would suggest Queens or the far ends of Brooklyn (Flatbush appears to be nice. I haven't spent much time there. Flatbush appears to be more family oriented and many frum or frum-ish people I know in Manhattan now grew up in Flatbush).

By far, I would suggest Forest Hills. I know of a nice minyan there. However, Forest Hills is very suburban in character and there seem to not be many singles there. However, it is about 20 minutes by subway (on the E train)from Midtown.

Forest Hills is cool because it is very Jewishly diverse, almost like being in Israel. Many Israelis there as well as a large community of Bukharans. There are also large Sephardic communities in Brooklyn and Queens.

The problem with Brooklyn and Queens, of course, is that if you are working in Westchester or New Jersey, your commute will be longer and more harrowing, even if you drive. Add at least another 30 minutes to the travel times I metioned in one of my previous comments, as well as the stress of having to drive in rush hour traffic every day (you'd be following the commuters into Manhattan before you hit the reverse commute to Jersey or Westchester).
 

DYS - Parking on you? Looking to be my sugar daddy? Heights is an option, but not my favorite. I have to grow up - and part of that means leaving the college years behind. Or at least not eating in the caf.

SWFM- Thanks, hopefully I'll give it enough that, and not just jump into things as a way of making tough decisions. But I also hope I don't over analyze...the middle path...right there, yet so elusive.

Sh-ana - Passaic is about 30 minutes from each of the two offices I'll be interviewing at, and it is on the company's recommended list of cities to live in. Of course, so is Monsey. Maybe I should look into Lakewood? Then I could blog about it...

IMM/MH - You too, don't get any ideas. First off, there would be no bloodshed- don't know where you got that idea from. We'd have late night cry sessions.

D - I don't think anything involved in moving would be intrinsically risky, but in general, I want to train myself to accept more risks instead of always looking for the safe way out. I know I can accomplish more if I step outside of my safety net.

EC - I'm so happy you checked in on this post! I might need a tour guide around Brooklyn. I'm going to have to check in on you...

TR - You're the greatest. I appreciate all of your insight. Practically, I'm not a party person, so I don't know if I have to worry that much about the late night train schedules. I'm more of an early person, and I have a pretty Yeshiva guy lifestyle. I'm no monk, but I'm not really going to get much out of the UWS scene. Although, I do like the West Side Kollel. My guess is I'll end up in the far suburbs like White Plains, West Orange, Passaic, or Monsey, or alternatively on the UES or Washington Heights. But until I know for sure where I'd be working, I'm not going to pin myself down. But I'm sure I'll need somebody to help me adjust!
 

After reading Treif's post I find the need to ask how we're defining the words "frum" and "orthodox?"

Orthodox and on the Rockettes? I think not.

And the UWS scene is not so much frum as it is shomer shabbos and shomer kashrut with tzniut out the window a long time ago (not to mention shomer negiah).

Not to speak for anyone else, but I'm sure many would not consider these classifying terms accurate in thess cases.
 

Good luck....
Just go with your intuition..and dont overanalyze anything..and if theres anything I can do to help..let me know.
 

Isn't "frum" Yiddish for "religious" as in Orthodox?

The Orthodox woman who is a member of the Rockettes walks to rehearsals on Shabbes from the Village. This is a significant walk of about half an hour.

WHat does it mean to be "religious" "frum" or "Orthodox", anyway? Elders (people in their 50s and up) tell me that the Orthodox world, chielfly Young Israel, was more liberal before the 60s or 70s. Things weren't as black and white a generation ago.

Maybe this Orthodox Rockette is more of an old school Young Israel typew of Orthodox.

Lastly, WHite Plains is not the far suburbs. Tarrytown is further from Manhattan. That being said, White Plains is nice enough as small cities go. The mayor is building housing there and encouraging restaurants andother places of entertainment to be open later so as to attract young professionals like yourself to live in central White Plains, which has always primarily been a business district.

Don't know so much about shuls there and I don't know of any kosher restaurants in WHite Plains.
 

"This is a significant walk of about half an hour."

I meant at least half an hour. 50-ish blocks depending on where they live in the Village.
 

Don't do it! I absolutely can't stand the NY area. Maybe move here for a month and see if it pays moving for lng term?

I have a friend from 'outtatown' who moved here recently, he doesn't like it and plans on moving back home..

Good Luck in ne case with job + shidduch!!
 

DYS - Obviously those terms mean different things to everyone else, so we have to figure out for ourselves what a "frum community" means. "Treifalicious" should be your first clue...

D - Hmm, is intution an emotional trait or a logical one. Just wondering if I have any. I'll try not to think too much, and just be happy with wherever I end up.

T - In my view, the Orthodoxy of the '50s was in name only. They were people who belonged to Orthodox synagogues, but did whatever they wanted to in their personal lives (without looking for religious sanction). That is definitely not the environment today (although plenty of that does exist). The difference between the religious scene on the UWS today and of a YI community in the '50s would be the secular environment that those Jews were engaging in when not in Synagogue. In the '50s, they may have gone to non-Kosher restaurants - there weren't many Kosher to chose from. Now, that same crowd is more likely to, say, wear skirts, but still sleep around. People are frum in public, but not in private. Maybe that's over-simplifying it.

L - I'm definitely coming. But it's definitely not permanent. To turn back now would probably be me just running away from my fear of the unknown. I'm not terribly surprised your friend hates it, but I do have 4 NY years under my belt. I also don't plan on making this long term - say 3 years. I'm not a NY type of person, but I can survive amongst them. So when are you getting out?
 

""Treifalicious" should be your first clue..."

AND WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?!?!?

Are you trying to imply that I must be totally secular and therefore have no idea what Orthodox Judaism is? If so I REALLY, REALLY resent that!!!!
 

T - Oy, sorry about the miscue - that's not what I meant at all. Just the opposite - DYS was implying that your description of Orthodoxy didn't fit his understanding. My point to him was that there are a lot more perspectives on defining Orthodoxy than the party line of the Yeshiva world. I only meant that "Treifalicious" should have been a flag for him that, right or wrong, you have a more complex understanding of Orthodoxy than he. I definitely value you as a religiously aspiring person and as a personal advisor and friend - I would never mean to offend you. I owe you a coffee...
 

I understand I always overanalyze it is tough not to if that is what you usually do.
 

Oh, it's OK. I suppose when you get to the New York area you can look me up.

I have never met anyone in real life from my blogging life. This could be interesting.

For one thing, you would learn my real name...
 

SWFM - Tough, right? All of life is trying to make our first reaction fit with what is best for us.

T - Do I look up Treifalicious in the phone book? Consider this my looking you up...my email address is in my profile. I've met a couple of bloggers, and I find it thrilling to see that they're real. Of course, I'm guessing the least fascinating part of you is your name. I'll be in NY this Sunday...
 

Sh - Thanks! I got it! I'm moving to NJ soon...
 

Josh - Kew Gardens Hills is perfect for the BT, it's compactness and Main Street helps you get to know your neighbors pretty well. And there are many great Shuls and Yeshivos for all types.
 

Thanks Mark! I'll be there this Shabbos and I'll check it out. It's not a likely move spot for me, due to the commute to West Orange, New Jersey, but if I like it enough - who knows!